Hi, Amitabh. It's so nice to see you again. Thank you so much for agreeing to be part of our podcast. How are you?

Hi, Shanti. Glad to e-Connect again I'm quite excited to participate in this podcast, and look forward to an interesting conversation.

Thank you, again. These are really unprecedented times, aren't they? We haven't seen anything like this in our lifetime. And hopefully, we won't anymore. But I think it's a great time for, you know, the challenges that we've seen in the last few months also provide us some great opportunities.

Reflecting back on the 2008 financial crisis, Amitabh, and at that time the CFO became the superhero-- finance processes, governance became so prominent after that crisis that the CFO was catapulted into the driver's seat. And it looks like now it's the time of the CHRO. How do you feel? What do you think COVID has done with respect to HR and specifically the role of the CHRO?

That's an interesting observation, Shanti. I certainly think the nature of issues that this pandemic has brought to the fore have required intense involvement and solutioning. And we have had to take proactive actions, make sure we are available out there to address employee concerns, and also anticipate how the situation will unfold.

Certainly, demands have been very acute on the function. But perhaps I would take a different view. I would say that while HR is certainly being called upon to come forward and take proactive actions, I think each function plays a vital role and we are all part of a chain. So I think everyone has to play their part. And that's when the engine really fires.

If you ask me from the perspective of where we are today? I would actually say the heroes really are out there in the front line. The employees who keep the factory running, the employees who go out on sales calls with all the precautions necessary. I think I would really call them out as heroes in this situation because they are out there ensuring essential products are delivered to consumers and at the same time doing so in a safe and risk-mitigated manner.

So certainly, I think I would call them out as heroes. For many of us, we are enablers of ensuring that operational issues are resolved; that we act in an agile manner, particularly in large organizations is essential that direction is provided quickly; that policies, where required to be changed, are done so rapidly. I think that's where the role of enabling functions comes into play.

I think HR also has a core role in the sense that it has to recognize the impact of this pandemic on employees' concerns. Certainly about safety, health, and risks, but also about job security, potential earnings in terms of compensation impact on bonuses. I think these are very challenging times, and as you rightly said, these are unprecedented. Hence HR has to be extremely sensitive to some of these concerns.

I think the trick lies in trying to balance both. Ensuring business continuity, addressing employee concerns, ensuring that we operate in a safe and risk-mitigated manner. If we're able to do all three of these, then I think one can demonstrate agility, one can demonstrate empathy, and one can demonstrate a very solid business orientation I think that's where the HR role takes primacy.

Thank you, Amitabh. I think it's very gracious to actually reflect on the people out in the field as the real superheroes, and I think you're absolutely right. At the end of the day, for HR, a key constituency is our people. And you mentioned a--

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a lot of different things that are vital. You mentioned first, was safety. And I think the pandemic has brought health and safety-- and including mental wellness of employees into the center. Could you share a little bit about what's the view that you've taken? You're a diverse group of companies, how are you handling safety and employee well-being as part of the HR function?

Right. So I think one of the first things we said is that employee safety is at the core of our efforts at ensuring business continuity. And the pandemic really had phases. The initial phase was one, one understood that something is about to happen and one has to take certain preemptive actions. Then we got into the lockdown phase and then the gradual unlocking.

So one of the first things which we said and we did, was to put in place very detailed advisories on how employees must conduct themselves if and when they are required to report to work in their own personal lives.

We also have many housing colonies. So we put down very clear sanitization protocols and risk mitigation protocols, not just for the offices, but also for factories and the locations where our employees reside in company housing. We instituted thermal checks, social distancing at workplaces.

We also introduced an app which sensitizes an employee if we were to violate the social distancing norms, and therefore you take preventive action. We also supplied employees with protective equipment, right from masks, sanitizers, visors, you name it. All of these were provided to employees at their residences.

We have also recently organized for ambulances, where we don't have one. Also tied up with hospitals to ensure that where people are mildly symptomatic, they are given the necessary care which is required. We are fortunate that we have about 40 doctors whom we have impaneled, not just at the time of COVID, but also initially.

And they're a fantastic base to get in touch with if the employer have any concerns on COVID or on-risk issues. They can reach out to the doctor. There is also a helpline they can call at any time of the night if they feel that they need urgent medical attention.

We have also facilitated testing facilities for managers, where the samples can be collected from home and supported those with quarantine requirements. For example, if you believe that you need to be isolated from the rest of your family in the interest of safety, provisions for those have also been made. So these are some of the safety measures we have put in place. Some of them immediately on day one, some we have progressed rapidly as the situation is unfolding.

That's interesting to hear, Amitabh. I think a lot of physical well-being measures that you've taken and you spoke about the app. In fact, at Mercer as well, we have introduced an app to monitor the safety and help provide instantaneous information around the safety of our employees. So it's great to hear how digital is playing a role in enhancing safety of our employees.

I think one of the other things I've heard from a lot of our clients is the focus on mental well-being during this period.

Right.

And so a lot of organizations have, of course, ensured the use of the EAP program has been enhanced. But many have also done some special things in terms of making therapists available on call-- virtual conversations, et cetera, during this period. So I just thought it would be interesting to share some of those other things that I've heard from our clients.

Going beyond safety, I think the organization, now that most of us are working from home, is lacking that energy somewhat. What are you doing to motivate your employees? Because for the business to bounce back, you need employees who feel the energy of being back at work. So in terms of employee motivation, what are some of the things that you've been doing at ITC?

I think that's a very valid observation you made. Before I address the second part on as part of the employee well-being, we have actually further intensified the counseling opportunities available to employees. And a lot of it today is being done by expert agencies. So we have relationships with them, and we are noticing that the intensity of reaching out to such counselors has actually gone up during this period, many of the businesses which have this facility.

Regarding the social aspect of work, which you spoke about. I think so far, we are all leveraging the institutional social capital, which we have built up over time. So because all of us have worked with each other, and particularly in ITC where we have a culture of long tenure and people can really have experienced their colleagues over an extended period of time. So I think we are able to leverage those relationships fairly well.

But going forward, I think one of the key roles of HR is going to be in announcing that social capital if we were to continue working from home. One input to doing that is I think recognizing some of the exceptional work which has been done by many employees.

So we have put in place a system where we have called out individuals who have gone beyond the call of duty, delivered exceptional results, and we have recognized them through various virtual platforms.

We've also had an address by our chairman-- a virtual town hall covering over 5,000 employees, where people came in with questions, where we called out those who had carried out exceptional work. We celebrated certain milestones because even in this difficult situation, there were businesses who delivered on numbers and targets well beyond what was expected of them.

We also did one interesting thing. We said that, yes, there is disruption. Certain businesses are under stress, but any disruption also throws up opportunities. So we launched what we called a re-imagined next contest within ITC.

And we got employees to say that whatever idea you have of new businesses, or new products, or adjacencies to existing products and categories we operate in, you can form teams and given any ideas in these areas and domains. And the competition is still on. We have already received about 800 odd ideas from over 3,000 employees. Early days yet, so I think it's certainly energized the employee base to make some contributions even in these difficult points in time

Thank you, Amitabh. I think your last point is triggering my next question, re-imagine the next. Last December we conducted our annual talent trends survey globally. And one of the key findings as far as India was concerned was 100% of the organizations are embarking on a transformation journey-- transformation of their organizations, transformation of their business models.

And it's a great idea to actually get your people along and solicit their thoughts on what the next could look like. Part of this whole transformation journey is the transformation of the HR function itself. What is the next HR or re-imagining HR looking like for you?

I think the pandemic has certainly accentuated certain trends and brought some to the forefront, which perhaps were there, but now are going to merit far more attention. Let me call out a few. I think the first one I can think about is the entire aspect of learning development and reskilling.

I think as an HR function, we will now have to find effective ways of delivering such reskilling and learning efforts in a virtual environment. It is not just as simple as converting a workshop to an online program. I think it requires a fair amount of engagement to ensure that delivery is effective, that employees pick up the skills which are essential, that they get tested and assessed.

So that's one challenge, and I think it's a critical challenge because reskilling needs to continue. The business environment is going to require it. It still requires it. You have to find ways of delivering it effectively.

The second challenge is the aspect of employee well-being. I think the pandemic has brought that to the forefront. You made some comments about mental well-being. I think that is an area of intense focus. Working from home without social connections of work leads to other kinds of issues and challenges, and I think HR will have to find innovative ways to address it.

The third aspect, which comes to mind is in the domain of productivity. I think working from home-- and we did a survey recently with over 800 managers in the company and over 35%-45%, approximately, reported an improvement in productivity.

So productivity certainly has improved, but therefore it also throws up interesting questions. Are there opportunities for re-examining the organizational design, and structure and architecture? Are there new opportunities there? And how can HR add value on that aspect?

Lastly, I think-- and this is perhaps always been true. But again, the pandemic has brought it into focus is the aspect of values. You know, it is when you are challenged and in difficult situations one has to act based on the values enshrined or espoused in the organization.

And I think it's for HR to ensure that these values stand the test of time in these difficult moments. I think that is a very, very fundamental delivery and requirement of the function. So I would basically sum it up around these points.

OK. Very valuable, Amitabh So if you were hiring somebody for HR in your organization, what are the skills and competencies that you will look to assess in the person you're interviewing? I know that in HR we have a gamut of roles, but suppose you were looking for an HR business partner in the new organization or the new context. What are some skills and competencies you think will help make HR a valuable business partner?

Sure. I mean, there are many, but the three which strike me perhaps as most essential, particularly in the context of what the current situation demands and will demand over the next year or so. I think the first is resilience.

The ability to stay committed to the larger objectives in the face of disruption, difficulty challenges. And those are going to be thrown at individuals on a daily basis and they're going to be new challenges which one has to confront at a fairly rapid pace. So I would call out resilience as a very important characteristic.

The second, I would say is some kind of-- for lack of a better word, probably intellectual dexterity or flexibility. Not to be wedded to a certain point of view. Be open to feedback, be open to correcting the course of a decision or a decision itself.

I thin we are in times where the situation and the environment is rapidly evolving. So one has to test out various courses of action and be prepared to change course very quickly when required. You don't have to get 100% right, but you can move ahead with the 80% confidence and be open-minded to change direction when necessary.

Third aspect, I think where creativity comes in is in these difficult times, how do you kind of build a differentiated employee value proposition? You know, now, suddenly, everyone's operating remotely at least those who are not in sales or in a factory role. In such circumstances, how do you still retain the culture, the socialization aspects of an enterprise? And how do you carve out a very distinctive positive position for your organization, and what does it mean for employees?

So the creative thinking around the value proposition is one which would require some intellectual heft and some thinking through. And I think one would look for that innovative capability in future HR leaders and managers. If they're able to think out of the box on that dimension.

Again, I was looking at the three-- you mentioned, Amitabh. And they're actually all behavioral kind of aspects that employees have to pick up, HR has to pick up. And that's really interesting because every year, Mercer does work with the World Economic Forum, and we're looking at the future of jobs, future of skills.

Creativity, intellectual dexterity have come up many times as core skills for the future. So it's great to hear that for HR, as well as a function. These are going to be extremely important skill sets.

My final question, Amitabh, is that there's a lot of change happening all around us. COVID was completely unanticipated. It has definitely put a focus back on how to make our businesses sustainable. But before COVID, there were two factors that were driving a lot of transformation for us.

One was the impact of technology and digital and what it's doing to HR. And the other is the demography of employees and how our needs to adapt to these two. How do you see these three forces coming together? And what is your final word of advice for HR in terms of navigating this complex set of drivers that are going to impact how successful we are in the next few years?

Right.

So it's a long-winded question. Digital demography, things like COVID where sustainability is key.

See, I think from the demographic impact is really when employees are expecting a certain set of experiences. I think it's important that there is a fair amount of dialogue and conversation with employees in charting their careers. Because I think oftentimes, that lack of an engagement maybe to individuals moving on and finding options outside.

I think one of the aspects of demography is that because employees are seeking different experiences, what is it that you can do within your organization to provide those experiences? And therefore, it's very critical that as HR, you have an institutionalized mechanism to provide opportunities for that conversation, and be able to align opportunities within the business with what the individual's aspirations are.

So sometimes you may need to actually craft out roles for individuals, which typically may not have existed in an organizational structure or hierarchy, but are of relevance to the commercial activity of the firm.

The second aspect of our technology, which you referred to I think-- you know, technology offers tremendous opportunity to give employees a fantastic experience. The low-hanging fruit are employee transactions.

And I think most organizations have already moved ahead on that and are able to deliver a fairly seamless experience to the employee as far as transactions are concerned. Even if it is not technology-enabled, it is partially technology-enabled, and it is far better than what it used to be.

The second aspect is about sensing about checking on employees on how they're feeling, what their feedback is on an initiative or an issue. I think technology allows you to have a fairly open and continuous feedback loop. So you can correct issues on the fly and you have rich feedback, and you have data backup in support of your decisions.

The other aspect of which when you combine the two, I think there is also a need for employees to feel connected with a higher purpose. I think people would prefer to work for firms where there is an overarching vision, which excites them, which is the mission beyond just enhancing shareholder value, but looks at multiple stakeholders.

I think that is a very powerful trend and opportunity. Because I think people are keen to see are they making a contribution beyond just their roles and does the larger aspiration of the organization appeal to their own individual goals and aspirations. If you're able to make that connect happen, I think you can see some very powerful results at work. And you can see powerful results in terms of employee commitment and loyalty.

Amitabh, that absolutely echoes the sentiment that we found in our global talent study, where I think purpose and purpose going beyond one single set of stakeholders is a great way to engage employees, provides for strong employee experience, and connect with the organization.

And if we enhance it like you said with active listening, digitally enabled feedback loops to take corrective action, and doing all of this while balancing the economics of the business, I think HR definitely can become one of the new heroes in the emerging context.

Thank you so much. I think your insights have been extremely valuable. I do hope that we've found better ways and means to cope with the COVID kind of situation should it repeat itself once again. But regardless, I think we have managed to take away a number of rich lessons, including how to deal with employees in a more holistic manner, how to balance economics with empathy, and a number of other learnings I think that will stand in good stead for times to come.

So thank you very much to you, Amitabh, for joining us. And thanks to our audience. I hope that the audience took away some good lessons as well.

Pleasure was mine, Shanti. Wonderful conversation. And I hope the audience found it meaningful.

Thank you so much.

Great. [INAUDIBLE]