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Welcome to a podcast series on the new shape of work. I'm Kate Bravery, advisor and insight leader at Mercer. And today, we'll be discussing the energy crisis. No, not the challenge that we all have meeting our cost of living commitments, but the human energy crisis that we see in our workplaces and we hear about day to day.

As many of you will know, our global trend study showed that this year, people are especially depleted. And HR worries that if we can't bring back people's energy, the whole conversation around bringing back to the office is a nonstarter.

I'm really excited to be here with Erin Rosenfield, who shares my passion for ensuring we've got an energized workforce fit for the brave new future of work that we're heading into. Erin, welcome to the call today, really looking forward to our conversation.

Kate, thank you so much. First, thank you for having me as when we first spoke about this, I'm so excited to be here. I'm so passionate about this work and very motivated by what I see happening in terms of the human energy crisis.

Well, Erin, you are one of the people that always energized me when I get to hear from you. So I'm hoping that that will be a personal outcome from the call. But I know that you have just moved into a new role, which is specifically focusing on energy. You're almost walking the talk on the future of work by doing your passion.

Why don't you-- why don't we start there and you tell us a little bit about it?

Absolutely. So I'm so excited to talk about this new adventure as I-- as I'm-- for one of the first times in my career, fully intersection between my passion and what I'm going to actually be doing from a career perspective.

My passion is really helping people achieve the best versions of themselves, particularly leaders. And I've spent my whole career developing and coaching others.

But for the first time, as many others are finding, coming out of all the work that we did through 2020, 2021, and COVID that I took five months off, I had never done that, just to reflect, and think, and recharge. And that really led me to join the energy project from that reflection so I could fully focus on developing leaders and teams to run their best race. And that's what the energy project does.

All right. Well, energy part, it's really easy to remember. But it's interesting because you've lived through that COVID reality of exhaustion. You're almost a product of this introspection period, where you did take those five months to realign your work with your passion. So I love that story.

Why don't we level set with, why we got ourselves into this energy crisis in the first place? Because I don't just see it in Mercer's own research. I see it in other's research as well.

Yeah. When I think about how we got here, I think there are three primary things. And then I'm going to give a cherry on the top of the cake. So the three real things I think about, the [INAUDIBLE] world, COVID, politics, economic uncertainty, disparities, tech as an accelerant, speeding everything up and has fundamentally changed how we interact as humans. It's a lot. It's exhausting.

That's the first thing. I think we're just overwhelmed by all of that. And we all have a version of that that we're living through. So that's the first thing.

The second is demand is increasing. Is there anyone you talk to where you say, you think you're going to have less things to do in the future? You think your job is going to get less intense? No. Most people are saying, I used to have one job. Now I have two. I have three. I have these four hats. So the second thing is demand is increasing.

And the third are these generational differences. The majority of managers and leaders, we haven't lived through this before, we're not prepared to lead through this human energy crisis. And we're also being called upon generationally to lead in a very different way than, quote, "we were raised."

So those are the three. And then the cherry on the top of the cake is culture, particularly, in the west, but certainly, through globally to various degrees. We wear exhaustion and more hours as a badge of honor, as evidence of commitment.

And we undervalue-- and I'm not even sure people are aware of the energy that they're-- that they could be managing and how to do that. We sleep less to get more done. And it's creating this disaster.

It's interesting. I spent the last 10 years in Asia. And FaceTime certainly has one meaning. But having just recently come back to the UK, busy time, I think, has another one on culture.

I love your concept of we've all got a version of bucca, because I agree. It's all different, but my gosh, it's a lot. And certainly, sitting here in the UK, I am-- I read an article the other week on moral burnout. And they posted-- we posted a Twitter tree in there and it said, oh my gosh, what's next?

We have the COVID crisis. We've had the crisis in Ukraine. We've had our prime minister change. We've had-- the queen died. And now I'm hearing that Russia wants to-- is talking about nuclear attack. What next?

So I agree with you, wherever you are in the world, there's just a lot going on. Absolutely.

And that-- it's interesting because I used to do a lot of work on the future work. And all the visions of the future was we'd all be doing three day work week because AI and automation was going to make our life so damn easier. And I feel a little cheated because we've been doing a lot measuring work intensity. And certainly, from some of the work around that and our engagement surveys, we are seeing the response to the question, I am asked to work unreasonable hours shoot up. So something's gone wrong along the way.

I'd love you-- I love any thoughts on that. But maybe we can go on to the second question that we wanted to cover today, which is, if we don't address this energy crisis in our teams, in ourselves, in our businesses, what's going to be the impact of the individual business and societal level?

Yeah, the impacts, I mean, profound. It's everywhere. I'm not even sure where to begin. And we're already seeing some of this. You think about burnout, retention issues, performance issues. People are saying higher absenteeism, sickness and health challenges, immune systems, cardiovascular, blood pressure, lack of innovation, you name it. I could go on.

But I would also say, I'm a generally optimistic person. I would say, we're going to have a reckoning on this. And I think we're starting to have that. And at the energy project, we believe that we have to address this proactively.

That's what drew me to join the energy project, the idea of we can address this proactively. And it's great if we do because the cost from realities are going to increase. We're either going to proactively deal with this or we're going to have to reactively deal with it. Because I do believe that it is possible to be high performing and high achieving and achieve well-being, that's my primary motivation. But you've got to-- it's much easier if you do that proactively. And I don't see-- we're not there yet. We're not doing that yet.

Absolutely. And we certainly see some of those impacts on benefit premiums and amount of days out of the organization. And I think we'll start to see more and some of the long term health implications as well.

I love your point there that there's a day of reckoning coming. I wonder if the fact that we've just got a new language around this might accelerate it. You mentioned burnout there. Now we've spoken before about the resignation, and now quietly quitting. I'm wondering if some of this language is beginning to surface this.

I think definitely. And I think we're there. We're in this-- we're seeing the beginning of this. And we-- in fact, the reckoning, I love that we named our leadership program around this. It's called the reckoning. Because you're either going to reckon with this yourself. You're going to have a reckoning. Either you're going to proactively get there or it's going to find you. But we-- I really do believe that that's happening. And I believe we're starting to see that around us, with people deciding to retire early, take breaks, et cetera. It's happening. We're there--

Absolutely. And there's been swathes of the workforce that are quitting without a job to go for-- go to. And we've got to get them back if only to make sure that they can remain employable, can make sure they've got enough to feed their pensions as they get older.

So whose responsibility is this? Is it the employer? Is it the manager? Or is it the individual or some combination of that? Because I agree with you. We can't ignore this. And if we're not taking action on this, we're probably part of the problem. So what's your thoughts here?

The thought that I wish it was one person, right? Wouldn't that be great if we had one throat to choke? Unfortunately, the answers everyone, I think, of this on three dimensions. At an individual level, people need to be aware of it. They need to respect their own energy more and not just think I can sleep less, figure out and crack their own codes, learn about their own energy, how to manage it to optimize their performance.

And I wish it was one size fits all. As you say, I think most organizations, by this time, we've rolled out the programs. So on an individual level, being aware of it and owning it for yourself. So you have to learn about it and own it. That's the first thing.

The second is leaders and managers. They have to lead by example. So they have to master their own energy. And then they have to learn how to others do the same and model it. And we're definitely not there in most cases.

And then at the organization level-- organizational level, recognizing the work and investment needed. As I said, beyond the very important things in terms of policies, more time off, the right discussion group. So we've, I think, done a good job of giving people access and changing the policies and things because you can do those. But we need to go deeper and enabling people around their own energy to help them crack that code.

And that's where then the ROI will happen, because you get higher performance, retention, and ultimately, a better lived experience at work. And then also, the knock on effect in all arenas of your life.

It's so interesting because there are really different perceptions out there. And we've-- we certainly saw that with flexible working and return to work. Where does work is actually get done. How does it get done. There's some big gulfs between executives, middle managers, and employees. So I think part of the challenge is bringing them together. But I agree with you.

We don't have the habits to necessarily operate in the new world of work. It's not the way we were brought up. We had boundaries. And I do see there's more opportunity to also enforcing some hard boundaries. I believe that's where some of the dialogues around a four-day workweek are going. We're working with some professional services firms that are putting very hard boundaries around-- we will not work more than 45 hours a week, even in peak times. We've never seen that before. I think that's really interesting.

So where are you seeing some practical tips? Tips that maybe people listening into the call today can immediately implement with themselves or with their teams?

Before I answer that, can I go back to something that you just said that I think is really important because the paradigm you're even talking about there is still focused on hours.

We as a culture are still talking about the hours we work versus like if you call that a focused workweek. It's not about the hours. It's about the impact that-- and what we would say at the energy project, it's about the energy you bring to those hours profoundly impacts the impact of those hours. And we've got to stop thinking about hours.

I understand, for certain job classes, you can't do that. However the reality of we still are counting hours work and we have to break that mindset.

I agree with you. But I also think we've got some ingrained habits to break in the now before we get to tomorrow. So I was speaking to digital frontiers yesterday. And they were saying too is that they've moved the whole organization to a four-day workweek. And they're taking Fridays off, which I think is fantastic because it's the same time off together.

But the biggest challenge that they are having is, how do you then move from a culture that was measured by time to one that's measured by outputs? And it isn't as easy as you think it is. And they also said, how do you get rid of the stigma that different individuals might take much longer or shorter to do something? And that's OK. Because we all have different energy levels. There are different things going on outside of business. And yes, somebody might take a whole week to do it because they want to work at a leisurely pace. And someone might opt to do some extra work and get it done in an hour. And that's OK.

And I thought that was such an interesting point around, yes, we need to get away with our obsession with hours, but there's a lot more that's connected to that in how we think about a productive worker, people on our team, who we give the go to projects.

And we need to break that too because that stops non-traditional talent or non-experienced talent growing and learning as well. And I thought that's fascinating.

Yeah. And look, it's a multiyear. I make it sound so easy, right? It's a multi-year enormous global cultural shift. We've been doing this for 100 of years. And I think that's where we get back to managers and leaders, not equipped. I'm actually terrified because hours are easy to measure. And it's much easier to measure that.

But the analogy I'd also give when I think back to what Khan Academy did with learning and saying that the biggest issue I remember when Khan Academy started was, time is the biggest thing in school. We get put into grades. And we're expected to all work at the same pace.

And the same thing is true in the workplace. That's just not the way humans are.

We were used to those hard boundaries. And I think in the interim between moving from today to tomorrow, some hard boundaries are working, some such as make sure that Amantha Umber, who's an innovator once told me, we live on maker time, 30 and 60 minute-- sorry, we live on management time, 60 and 30 minute increments. But you need three to four hours to make it. So encouraging people to have make a time.

But you also mentioned respect earlier. And I think if we wanted to enable people to better manage and pace their life, even if we haven't got the agenda set. We need to do placeholders when there's meetings so that people know two or three weeks in advance, they can work around.

And I think we are beginning to see more of a dialogue around how many emails are people sending to each other, how respectful are they of their team. How well prepared are they for a meeting with a senior person. And I don't know about you, but a lot of this is a long time overdue.

Yeah. But we're finally having the conversation. I think what we're at right now is this moment where we're all observing, and feeling, and experiencing this same lived reality. And we know we want to do better. So we're all looking for what is the-- what's the solve all, what's the panacea, how can I fix this. But it's going to take multi years and it's hard work. It's a big shift in a number of dimensions.

It is interesting, though, because I think the younger generation recognize it and are more thirsty for it. So I think that will also be a catalyst for change. In global talent trends, we said what-- to the employees, what do you think the future of work will look like? Big list of about 20 items.

And the highest one was we think it will work, it will look more balanced. And obviously, we've all got a responsibility to help them get there. But I was really surprised and it's even more pronounced in the younger generation.

But I think the younger generation are going to do it differently. I look to my children, and the way they adapted during the pandemic to learning online, they were scrolling things on their phone, interacting on the go. They are much better at partitioning their lives and-- because they grew up in that. Whereas I think, the rest of us, like you and I, we had a lot of structure growing up. And without that structure, we are beginning to see some of the mental health impact that that's causing, particularly for some of the younger generation in their 20s that might have not been through that before.

Any other tips that you wanted to offer before we close our call today.

Yeah, I would-- I think here's what I would say. I wish it was so simple that I could say like, everybody do these three things. We all know new habits are hard to create. Changing habits, even harder.

I have a joke with my friends, I know we should all sleep more, eat better, work out more. We all know. So my advice would be, the first thing is be aware and respect that you have four kinds of energy. You have a physical energy. You have an emotional energy. You have a mental energy, and spiritual or purpose-based.

And those were-- you need to take stock of where you are in each. You need to recognize what they mean to you, how they impact you, how it impacts how you show up and perform.

The second thing I would say is focus on, as you mentioned, half hour increments, hour increments, what are your series of sprints versus one big marathon. If you're running one big marathon, stop. It should be a series of small sprints with renewals.

And reflect on that. How are you pulsing between performing and recharging your batteries? Make sure that you're not surviving and burning out, which is where many of us landed. You should be performing and recharging, not surviving and burning out.

And until you reflect on that and how you're doing, you won't know which changes you need to make. And you won't know, until you reflect on why that's happening, they won't stick.

Erin, I had not heard about these four different energy types, but I'm already applying it to myself and thinking, where am I energized? Where am I depleted? And I think balance is really important because many things, such as purpose, can actually bring energy. And we did some research this year, looking at what a-- what is the difference between you feel energized or less energized.

And no surprise in here, the people who feel energized, feel they're working for a cause or a purpose, know they're four times more likely to feel that they have control over their career and agency. And on the flip side, those that are low on energy felt that the deal was inequitable, felt they couldn't say no to unreasonable work requests or that others didn't have their back. So a lot of the things we've chatted about before and inclusion came up there.

We are out of time. But before you go, I do try to ask, everybody who jumps on the call to put their futurist hat on. And I wonder if you wouldn't mind doing that for me. As we do zoom into 2030, how do you think the employee experience will be reshaped? Or maybe, what are your hopes for that research?

Yeah. Well, first, obviously, I hope to work with more-- we hope the energy project is featured at-- with more organizations and people really to help people lead sustainable fueled lives. That's my hope now.

What I would say is I think we're going to settle into this hybrid working. A lot of what we talk about right now is just like at the start of the pandemic where we had to learn to adjust to all remote. Took a while. And then after a couple of months, we stopped being as nervous about the emails we were sending out. We were nervous, we'll get over that.

So we'll settle in to what return to office hybrid. I think we'll get over that soon. Because look, if we don't, people are going to continue to vote with their feet. Refusing to come in, resigning, we'll see that happening.

So we'll figure out, I think, value-added reasons to be together versus policies mandating policing. And I think once there's value there, we'll have reasons to come together. The lines, I think, between work and play are going to continue to blur more integrated lives, as you say. I'm very hopeful that that will also be better balanced lives from an energy perspective.

And again, I hope that we make this shift away and continue to make a very difficult shift away from hours worked. But those are the main things. I don't-- I'm still waiting for my flying car. But [LAUGHS] as I say, by this time, I thought I'd have that. But I really do hope we get away from this obsession of hours worked.

I don't know if I share your concern about this flying car. Honestly, one more device that I have to charge or take care of, I don't have capacity at the moment. But maybe if I have that vision that you have of a sustainable energy fueled life, then I'll have time to embrace it. [LAUGHS]

Erin, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been a really great conversation. And for the listeners who've joined in, thank you for joining us today. If today's conversation pique your interest, please visit mercer.com to hear our other companies are reshaping the future of work.

Thank you all for listening today. Have a great rest of the day.

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